Stop Eating Your Friends! (Go Vegan)

in four months I will have been vegan for three years, vegetarian for 12 years. The diet is no big deal, just don't eat junk and you will be fine. I have never felt better. The only thing I missed was tea because I liked a lot of milk in it, like baby tea. I have tried all kinds of alternatives including barista but I just can't tolerate the bitterness of tea any more. I can obviously drink lemon tea, licorice ect and I drink a fair amount of perculated coffee. Advisory: GO VEGAN!

I'm trying it, I got most of what I need to not rely on meat, dairy, animal products.
I haven't eaten any of that in almost a week at this point. I'll keep to it.

To preface, I say this with the fullest respect towards vegans, and with no intent to be taken as an agitator. I personally am not vegan but understand (most of) the motives behind it and I have no problem with it although I will not be going down that path myself.

With that out of the way, I have a few questions, and like I said, this is just an innocent exercise of critical thought, so I don't expect to be bashed over the head here simply for my status as a meat-eater. I realize some passions are high regarding this topic and that's fine, but please refrain from chewing me out if I happen to be one of the few ifers members who is not vegan.

1. Why is it that vegans believe meat-eating is a result of advertising/brainwashing/propaganda? While I agree meat is promoted through modern advertising, it didn't START with advertising. Humans have eaten meat (and plants) for all of recorded history. But I've heard militant vegans say things like "the elite are trying to keep us all in lower vibrations/consciousness so they tricked us into eating dead flesh, which causes us to be out of sync with nature and never reach our full potential" or some other similar sounding line. Where on flat earth did that rhetoric come from, and who authorized a changing of all of world history when I wasn't looking? Because the fact is the vast majority of humans have always been omnivores and this goes back millenia before the modern propagandists, or even the Jews, began their full-fledged brainwashing campaigns. So who are these nefarious elite/puppet-masters that were brainwashing all of humanity for all of recorded history to eat meat? Or is it possible that maybe, just maybe, humans ate meat on their own, and that it could be a natural thing?
2. Why are humans singled out (in vegans' eyes) as being the one species that should not engage in eating meat?
3. I've become aware that some vegans have switched their dogs over to vegan diets as well. I have no qualm with this, although I think it's odd, but as long as the dog is getting all its nutrients I see no harm. But where does the line get drawn? How many other animals should be forced vegan like their vegan human captors? And does this not approach the realm of animal cruelty if it's done to certain predatory species? Where do we draw the line....should zoos (not that I'm a fan of zoos existing) switch their entire stock of animals to a vegan diet? Can a hawk go vegan and live for more than a month? How about a lion? A python? A tarantula? Komodo dragon? How about a great white shark, shall we impose him to go vegan too? If the answer to that is yes, then what shall we force him to eat (such that he actually lives and thrives)? If the answer is no, then why is the shark exempt from veganism, but other animals (especially humans) are not?
4. Why do vegans believe it morally wrong for a human to kill an animal for food? And I'm not talking about the modern commercial cattle concentration camps, I don't like those either, they are inhumane and unhealthy, filthy, and produce disgusting food like McDonald's. I'm not talking about those places or any other place that inhumanely processes millions of cows per year for maximum profit. I'm talking about the simple act of a human humanely killing an animal on his own and eating it. Why cannot a man go down to the stream and catch a trout and eat it; what makes it morally wrong or unhealthy in a vegan's eyes? What about a man shooting a deer and bringing it home to feed his family and making sure none of it goes to waste? Why do vegans demonize this natural and timeless human behavior as being something evil?
5. What is the reasoning that determines that humans' eating of plants is morally superior to eating animals? Aren't plants living entities as well? Think of all the ways a plant is just like an animal: they are birthed from a seed, grow, drink water, take in sunlight for vitamins, breathe, live, die, and some even move! Why, philosophically speaking, is it morally improper for a human to eat an animal but not a plant?
6. How do vegans feel about the thousands (actually more like millions) of living things they accidentally kill every day? Namely, very small things like bacteria, dust mites, ants, etc. Are those creatures' lives worth less because they're tiny? If vegans are against any living thing being hurt or killed by a human, then shouldn't they stop washing their hands and killing germs, and stop walking in grass fields because that is most assuredly destroying hundreds of bugs' livelihoods with every step? Or are tiny bugs/organisms not considered animals (and therefore worth less) and if so, why?
7. If vegans are against all eating of meat, why do they create their vegan products to simulate the texture and taste of real meat? Isn't this hypocritical? Why do they have the vegan "fake chicken" and "fake beef" and that sort of stuff? If meat is detestable then shouldn't vegans get away from it completely, even imititations of meat? Why eat something that is vegan friendly but resembles and is made to taste similar to real meat, which vegans despise?

I have a few more questions but they aren't coming to me right now. This is enough to get a discussion going though, hopefully.

Again, I have not and will not say anything disrespectful towards veganism or to any person on here, so show me the same regard. These are serious questions and I think/hope we can possibly have a friendly discussion without me getting proselytized and told why I'm a terrible person/not enlightened because I choose to live a lifestyle of eating meat. Please keep this in mind, and I look forward to answers to these questions.

Slingshot wrote:I am not vegan

Which State Sponsored Religion do you participate in (Atheist or Theist)?

Atheist
The Jesuits, invented Big Bang, Spaceballs, and you an Ape like creature who requires the consumption of Flesh and Blood, to grow your intelligence, and evolve beyond your animal cousins.

Theist
The Jesuits, instruct you to obey God in Heaven for HE has given you every Clean and Unclean animal to be your food, for it is the creation of the Flesh and Blood that makes you one with God.

State (see Corporation)
Jesuit (see Crypto Jew)

Slingshot wrote:1. Why is it that vegans believe meat-eating is a result of advertising/brainwashing/propaganda?

The State teaches humans from birth to "Consume" meat and dairy, and commit atrocities, under the guise of authority which is sold through that advert called the Food Pyramid.

Slingshot wrote:2. Why are humans the one species that should not engage in eating meat?

Hu-man like great Apes are a Long-Intestine animal and should never eat the DNA of another animal, having mother, face, and blood.

Slingshot wrote:3. some vegans have switched their dogs over to vegan diets?

All animals should eat a Species Appropriate Diet, ironically the Pet Industry finds Plants to be much cheaper than meat to feed Dogs and Cats; then the Pet Industry pays for studies on Dogs and Cats, telling their customers how long Dogs and Cats should live on a Plant Based Diet.

Slingshot wrote:4. Why do vegans believe it morally wrong for a human to kill an animal for food?

The DNA of another animal is not food, it is only through the Religious practice of burnt offering that human becomes cannibal.

Slingshot wrote:5. Are plants living entities?

Plants do not have a mother, face, an blood.

Slingshot wrote:6. How do vegans feel about the thousands of living things they accidentally kill every day?

I've learned to enjoy insects.
I kill bacteria that would harm me.

Slingshot wrote:7. why do vegan products simulate the texture and taste of real meat?

Meat has no taste
I'm on record of being against Vegans naming meals after animals
It should be of no surprise that most people have been plant based for a very short time and they may be trying to recreate tastes from their restaurant past.  Lets face it, people have spent the last 500 years perfecting flavor which makes eating animal parts palatable.


There you go Slingshot, I hope this satisfies your inability to GO VEGAN for one year and answer your own questions.  Let me caution you, there will be no dialog, I am not Vegan vs Vegan. Fact is, you should have read this Topic thoroughly and watched the videos provided; you should be telling us about the changes in your life, not asking me about mine.

Oh boy.

I never asked you about changes in your life, not once. Every one of my questions were designed as exercises in thought, to find out WHY vegans think the way they do. And make no mistake, yours is an opinion and not fact, it is a lifestyle choice, nothing more. But I had a feeling I may receive an answer like that, which belittles meat-eaters straight off the bat instead of being intellectually honest.

It seems you have made a mockery of those 7 questions instead of forcing yourself to think critically.

1. You seriously believe that meat-eating is a result of state indoctrination? Who told you that and what led you to believe it?
2. That is a more fair answer, although the second part of it isn't. What led you to believe that because humans are long-intestined they "should never eat the DNA of another animal having mother, face, and blood"? Is it fair to say that's your subjective opinion, or is there a clear-cut objective reason for that assertion?
3. You didn't answer this one. Where is the line drawn? Is a great white shark acting immorally when he tears a seal to shreds and eats it? If so, what should he be fed instead, and if not, why is he exempt? And why is the eating of both meat and plants not a "species-specific diet" for a human, but it is for a bear?
4. Again, this is your opinion. What does religion have to do with any of this? Religious people and non-religious people do hundreds if not thousands of the same activities, what singles out meat-eating as a strictly religion-oriented thing to do?
5. No they don't have a mother, face, and blood, I agree. But what makes that a factor as to why it's morally superior to eating something that does have a mother, face, and blood? Again it sounds like you're espousing personal opinion. Think deeper.
6. So it's okay to kill bacteria when all they're trying to do is colonize some part of you in order to stay alive? But it's not okay for a human to kill and eat an animal in the desert if there are no edible plants around (hypothetically) in order to stay alive? What brings about this inconsistency in logic, and like I said, are tiny invisible creatures worth less than big ones?
7. Okay, that's a good answer. I disagree that meat has no taste, but your answer is sufficient here.

Lastly, I have read the thread and watched some videos over the years, but I've found nothing compelling enough to prove that veganism is any more than a personal decision, same as meat-eating. I don't go around militantly trying to convert vegans to eat meat again by claiming moral high ground, so why do vegans do this to meat-eaters? What is the basis for the moral high ground you think you have? It should be simple for you to explain, if you have worked out the WHYs to these deep philosophical questions and are confident that you've made sure all of your logic is consistent. If it's difficult, then maybe a revisiting of the Socratic method of logic would be a good thing to do, in order to make sure you're not espousing subjective emotion-driven answers.

Btw like I said, I hope none of this is taken personally, I really don't have anything against what you choose to eat, it's more the sheer militance of veganism that tends to raise an eyebrow for me. For the record, I do believe that eating more vegetables and fruits is the path to better health. The state definitely bombards us with adverts for McDonald's and other crappy diets they want us to consume, I'm not arguing with that. But I don't see a logical reason as to what makes it morally and objectively wrong for a human to kill and properly prepare an animal for consumption. That's what this is all about: the morality aspect. I don't push meat-eating on people who don't wish to, but vegans do tend to push veganism on meat-eaters who don't wish to go vegan, and when backed into a corner they claim they have the moral high ground and that meat-eaters are some kind of savage barbarians.

Can recommend Earthling Ed's free ebook which is good read and covers the main logically fallacious excuses for eating meat:

https://www.earthlinged.com/ebook/

I highly recommend this series and everything else by Earthling Ed as well.  Here is the entire book in video form:



You'll have to use this link for the whole playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mjVwVDDI8E&index=2&list=PL03LZR09P2gQJyBgHk_XE8gbj8j9uFs8G

Okay Eric, will watch that today when I get a chance.

Hi Slingshot,

I have recently became vegan, after having spend the bigger part of my life eating small portions of biological meat (small farms.) I would like to try to answer your questions, as it is a good exercise for me as well. I hope my post will be excused, as this is actually not a discussion forum. So apologies in advance.

1. You seem to base yourself on the his-story provided by the system, stating that we have always eaten meat and that it is the right way to gain body mass. Your body is simply not made to eat meat. Your intestines are too long (so it can start rotting on the way down, in case of slow digestion) and your fluids are not acidic enough to brake it down. Making your blood hotter then supposed to, reaching your kidneys - asking for a compensation - which makes you draw energy from other resources. You would have been able to spent this energy more beneficially. Like for activities not involving the digestion of death animal meat. Which is another sentient being, now residing inside you. With most likely the last images on that animals mind, are seeing his/her friends die in front of him/her. Compared to a quick and sudden death, from an arrow through the bushes. This animal had never seen it coming, that would be completely different.      
There is abundant evidence of super healthy people with big muscles or young looks solely eating a plant based diet. Where, the meat protein based people has to take all kind of stuff to keep at their maximum. Until they crash at a young age due to completely exhausting your body. Instead of nourishing it, with a plant based diet. Any proofs against this, is by the system not wanting to change. AS IT IS COMPLETELY STUCK IN LOBBY WORK. Imagine the meat industry having to close down over night, due to people have all gone vegan. This would mean massive loss of monaaay, jobs and eventually homes as people have to pay bills. We are literally chained, tied to our landlords and monaaaylords. The debt/interest thraldom, the nsdap was talking about a while ago…
So, they do everything to make people not be too intuitive. Imagine having to rule over a bunch of free thinking loonies instead of the rational eat (vaccinated) meat joe?  

2-3. Humans are not the only species that solely eat plants. A gorilla stick to his plants, with his presumed lesser intelligence and consciousness. He could easily shred another animal into pieces, but he doesn’t? Why? A shark does shred a seal (poor seal), but would you see him plucking berries? Imagine that, hah.
An animal should eat their appropriate (whatever comes onto his path really… in nature that is) thing… Whatever that might be. Don’t confuse having a dog or any pet is anything but natural these days. Dogs and cats had their purpose when they started to get exploited by humans. Cats were eventually brought onto ships and towns as they catch mise. They are used to hunt for little animals… just stuff that moves really, my cats come home with beetles or bats… Dogs were brought for more offensive reasons. As they can bite pretty damn hard, and are more “tameable” for that cause than a bear (for example.) Which is not so easy to befriend… Like we did with dogs. We have a very distorted view of what animals are, or should be at least. As we have been building nature away, piece by piece.  

4-5. There used to be a time, where you didn’t have to catch a trout or deer to be fed. As you simply had to pluck it from the bush or tree or collect it from the ground. But I have the feeling we exhausted our place a bit…
Killing another living animal or human, even saying it, doesn’t feel right. Don’t you think?
Where a plant or tree grows its fruits or roots, not to be killed, but enjoyed by harvesting an honouring the gift it provides you. See at it as a token, for you, to be enjoyed and shared with others.
Now, I must admit that even this view or respect towards the living organism, is distorted. We have no spiritual bond with anything anymore (kind of.)
I am actually also convinced that the people who take care of their environment, by nourishing it - making it flower and thrive with and for the organisms (animal and plant) living on it, have some kind of a moral high ground (lets just call it a plus one in their favour.) As most of us deplete the land, in return of what? Do we ever give thanks to “the land” for giving us all this food? Well, in each case - Not enough! But with that notion, we would have to reshape our whole structured mess… So, not happening anytime soon, sadly enough.

6. Death, is a part of life. Whether you find that unfortunate or not. You will not escape it. And you shouldn’t. As it doesn’t end here or there. A healthier stance, at least I would say, is to accept it fully. Knowing it can happen every moment. And with that in mind, you can (more or less) live your life to the fullest. Making every decision count, every impression, encounter, emotion, thought… So to answer this question (which I find a bit childish); yes, they do count. And in my case (I don’t swat insects and such anymore) it was not my intention to kill them, should I walk over them. But I hope he/she/it is more fortunate next time.

7. They indeed shouldn’t replace their so called meat desires. As there is much more, much more delicious to be enjoyed. But, this is an excellent gate for the industry to make money. Shift the desires, with more or less the same results.

Whoever controls the present, controls the past. Don’t forget this.

Anyway, this is my view from what I have learned from Eric.

Take care,
MMDC.

MMDC thank you for the in-depth reply, while I don't necessarily agree with certain parts, I know what you're saying and those are good points. I know history is manipulated (a lot). And I do think people should eat veggies/fruits WAY more than they do (especially in America) and that veggies/fruits should be the staples of the diet. I just don't think there's anything wrong with eating meat as well though. But yes, I'm aware that there are people out there (bodybuilders, athletes) who built plenty of muscle and ate strictly vegan. Whenever I've added HEAPS of fruits and veggies to my diet and maintained this over a period of weeks, I have noticed an increase in energy levels and focus, although at no point did I do away with meat entirely, it would still be on my plate along with the greens. I'm not fat and never will be in my life, I'm 6'1" and my weight has stayed right at 152 lbs for the last 15 years never moving more than 2-3 lbs up or down (except when I got into weightlifting and bulked up to 170 a few yrs ago) and I never get sick. I'll get sick maybe once every 2 years, literally, and even then it'll just be a cold or something for a week, never a flu or anything serious. All in all good health so far. But I'm aware that meat-eating does increase cancer and heart attacks. I do plan to significantly increase my plant-based intake again. Also I'm a smoker of cigarettes and weed. The cigs are probably the worst habit I have and I really should strengthen my resolve to quit lol but haven't yet. Point being, I know I'm not perfect and there are things I can improve, although I still can't see myself starting to have a moral problem with eating meat. But I absolutely think that the bulk of our diet should be plant-based and I do agree that the current paradigm pushes too much meat (and NASTY versions of meat at that). I read some of Edward Bernays' (the so-called "father of modern propaganda") books from the early 20th century, and in one of them he revealed that he indeed was the mind that came up with the American idea of "eggs and bacon" being the foundation of breakfast. He wrote that a big pork company had contacted him and asked him if he could help them think of ways to sell more bacon/sausage. He very quickly got to work on an ad campaign that espoused the line that eggs and bacon were the heartiest of breakfasts for Americans and should be the way to start any day, along with pictures of eggs and bacon. Within weeks that pork company's sales went through the roof, and here 100 yrs later, eggs and bacon are STILL considered the "American breakfast staple". All because of Bernays' short ad campaign to promote the idea. Bernays also was the guy who caused women to smoke cigarettes widespread. Tobacco companies wanted to sell more cigs but they didn't know how to go about it, and at the time women generally didn't smoke, only men did. So Bernays said, simple: I'll implant the idea into women's heads that smoking empowers them. That's it. He organized a parade (in NYC I think) and paid dozens of affluent, influential, high-status women (some movie stars and such) to be seen in the parade smoking cigarettes. The women in the common populace, who seen this soon adopted cigs too a short time later, associating cigs with a rebelliousness/empowering symbol like they seen in the movie stars. Lol. It's sometimes scary how easy it is to brainwash the masses, myself included. Anyway, end of rant. I hear where you're coming from. I'm going to eventually cut back some of my meat-eating too, though not entirely, I'll be honest. Appreciate the reply.

Slingshot wrote:
I'm aware that meat-eating does increase cancer and heart attacks.
I'm a smoker of cigarettes and weed.

The World Health Organization (WHO) has publicly announced that Meat, Processed Meats,and Eggs are carcinogenic to Humans.
Specifically, eating on egg is the same as smoking five (5) cigarettes.

The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has classified processed meat as a carcinogen, something that causes cancer. And it has classified red meat as a probable carcinogen, something that probably causes cancer. IARC is the cancer agency of the World Health Organization.Oct 26, 2015


For you to come here and claim that your meat eating has no effect on your health flys in the face of reality, which shows that people just like you are the Bald, Blind, Deaf, and Toothless, spreading sickness and disease, and increasing the cost of Health Care for the rest of us who might only need broken bones reset.

Schpankme wrote:
For you to come here and claim that your meat eating has no effect on your health flys in the face of reality, which shows that people just like you are the Bald, Blind, Deaf, and Toothless, spreading sickness and disease, and increasing the cost of Health Care for the rest of us who might only need broken bones reset.

This is exactly why the idea of socialized healthcare is just evil. It rewards bad behavior and punishes those that do the right thing. The system is designed this way to create infighting and it's obvious when one looks at it objectively. I started losing my hair at the age of 17. I was almost completely bald by the age of 19. I went from having thick curly hair to looking like I was mid-thirties balding. I then got a hair transplant because I was so embarrassed by how old I looked. I would not recommend anyone getting a transplant, it's a waste of money and doesn't look all that great.

Now that I've been vegan since last July my hair has began to be thicker and some is even starting to grow back.I lost my hair at such a young age when both my grandpas died with full heads of hair. Looking back I think I've pinpointed one of the main causes. I used to love chocolate milk. I would drink milk multiple times a day and drink chocolate milk after almost every workout which was 5-6 times a week. I read an article saying how chocolate milk was better for recovery than Gatorade and completely bought it. I had high blood pressure and high cholesterol with 11-12% body fat which according to mainstream science shouldn't happen. I also had arthritis in my right ankle that probably had to do with my milk consumption. I have now reversed it by supplementing borax.

Maybe you aren't suffering the effects yet Slingshot but eventually it will probably catch up to you. I didn't get sick either other than when I was forced to be vaccinated while I was in the Army. Don't be so foolish to believe that you are above the many consequences that come from dairy and meat. Also it's not just about you it's also about the animals that are prematurely taken from their friends and family for human greed.

Schpankme, so we're taking the establishment's organizations' word now? Don't trust NASA, don't trust the public schools or colleges, don't trust the media, don't trust the government/politicians, don't trust the propagandists and their adverts, but DO trust "health organizations"? Haha. You'll take it when it fits your ideology huh.

I didn't say "eating meat has no effect on my health" you must have imagined it. I said that I eat meat, and that I am very healthy. Is your brain able to discern the difference between what I said and what you said, or do I need to spell it out for you and write an essay about grammar and semantics?

Schpankme, it has become evident to me, not just in this thread but in the entire ifers forum wherever I see your name, that you probably aren't as smart as you think you are. Almost every post of yours has multiple chunks of other people's previous quotes, as if we all haven't read them already and need to be reminded by Schpankme, the John Madden of ifers giving an instant replay in every single post, and THEN purposely misrepresenting what your target said and creating a strawman out of thin air. You clearly crave attention and enjoy being the "Paul Blart: mall cop" of this forum, it's hilarious that you think your tactics haven't been noticed.

I don't increase the cost of any health care, you insolent clown, I don't even have any health care or health/dental insurance. I'm self-employed and have been since I was 20, and I take care of myself well enough that I don't need to buy insurance or go to a doctor for anything. Haven't been inside a hospital or even a doctor's office since I was 14 or 15. I don't believe in health care programs, just like I don't believe in welfare or social security or any other state-funded programs. I do my own research on everything I ever come across and I do what is necessary to resolve a problem independently, whenever there is one, without being a leech on anybody. You think you know everything, but in most of what I've seen you write, you give yourself as being an immature kid typing away on the internet, probably from your parents' basement. You must be fun at parties.

Go ahead, write another post where you give everybody an instant replay of everything I've just said. You know you want to.

Slingshot wrote: we're taking the establishment's organizations' word now?

The WHO reported what the studies have been saying for 80 years.

Slingshot wrote:
I eat meat
I am very healthy [age 29]

No, you're not healthy, in fact you already have blockage of the arteries (Atherosclerosis), which was confirmed through studies on autopsies of US Soldiers from the Korean and Vietnam Wars; average age 22.

These plagues build up, causing the arteries to swell, do to ingesting animal fat (or oil) and cholesterol; this leads to others disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, blindness, gout, fibromyalgia, etc, etc.

This is the reason Men at about age 50 require that little blue pill to get an ERECTION.  Hey, survival of the stiffest.

Slingshot wrote:
Schpankme
in the entire ifers forum
Almost every post of yours has multiple chunks of other people's previous quotes

Slingshot or is it Logica77?  
Bring forth some type of evidence for your comment makes absolutely no sense.

The body of work I've provided on this forum is diverse and original::

Hitlerism
Jew controlled Media and Entertainment Industry converts Hitlerism to NAZIism
NAZI, those Zionist Jews also known as the Workers Party (UNIONS)
Hitler + NAZI + Britain = the contracted Transfer of Jews to the newly created Zionist State of Palestine
NAZI the founders of US and Soviet Space ENTERPRISE
NASA and it's use of the Chevron
Why the Space ENTERPRISE uses the Chevron
Who Invented Space (Time Line)
Global Earth Propaganda Used In Mass Media
Scientism the one religion to bind them all
The State Sponsored Religions (Atheist and Theist)
Indoctrination from Birth, ideologies created for you
9 11 .. IX XI .. hoaxes played out daily in mass media
JAPAN controlled by US since the 1800's, given unrestricted access to the Aleutian Islands to wage war in the Pacific
Flight Routes, Shipping Routes, Under Sea Cables
Fake Southern Flights
etc
etc
etc

As for you, I see someone who communicates with the knowledge of most 15 year olds.  Your avatar (car) tells me you are a shallow minded consumer; the indoctrinated to all that is offered; more specially, an Advertisers wet dream.  I deal with whiners like you everyday; when you can't get your way you claim I'm the problem.  What's even more self evident, you claimed to have researched me here at IFERS, so you know exactly my role here; you heard me braking on the other side of the fence and yet you decided to climb over, knowing I'm unchained.

Whats even more revealing, IFERS has showed you in every conceivable way how you've been duped, tricked and deceived (indoctrination) into obeying the Corporate State; then you come into this Vegan Topic and tell us about how Meat has always been the food of mankind.

Slingshot wrote:
I don't increase the cost of any health care, you insolent clown
I'm self-employed

You should have quoted me:  
"people just like you [meat eaters] are the Bald, Blind, Deaf, and Toothless, spreading sickness and disease, and increasing the cost of Health Care."

Slingshot, your issue with Vegans holding a moral high ground only challenges your false sense of superiority over the animals you ingest for your eating pleasures.

Maybe the question you need to ask yourself isn't "Why Vegans think the way they do", or hold a moral high ground, but instead ask yourself why you feel you have the right as a human to contribute to the slaughter of animals against their will???

If anyone is holding any high ground, it is yourself!

Schpankme, what makes you say I'm an advertiser's wet dream? The car, really? I haven't owned a television in over a decade, I don't read magazines, I (mostly) don't watch any new Hollywood movies, I don't vote for presidents, my debt is zero, and I don't even have any credit cards. My two cars are a 20-yr-old Explorer that I bought for $1500 off Craigslist and will use til it's been run into the ground. And my other car is a 30-yr-old Mustang, also paid for in cash off of a Craigslist deal. So what? I can't have a hobby of tinkering with old muscle cars, that makes me a mindless consumer? No. Mindless consumers watch the Walking Dead (or whatever show they're into these days), vote for authority figures, charge up their credit cards to make money for Jews, and buy new cars every couple of years. What hobbies do you have? Or are you so pure that your life is composed 100% of FE activism and you wouldn't dare to own a car, use electricity, computer, cell phone, or any other modern conveniences? If that's the case, then okay. But I know it's not since you're typing on this forum and I'd bet you have extracurricular hobbies that may involve items that were marketed to you too. At least my Mustang is 30 years old and I'm making use of it as long as possible where other people are buying new cars every year and junking the old ones. Who really cares that I made it my avatar? You've yet to say anything of substance other than silly ad hominem attacks across the internet towards a person you know almost nothing about. Get real, kid.

Slingshot wrote: Get real

Let me deliver my story.

About 10 years ago i became strongly alergic and with every year it builed, so about 1.5 year ago i was taking double portions of medicament (strongest possible), just to have chances to walk outside from apartment, in which when i was i also struggle couse in hardest time i needed to keep windows closed, to try limitate crying-eyes or sneeze-nose, but at some point even double portions started to do not work for me, and then i read Eric material about veganism, after which i decide to try it and go vegan, as i was desperate to find any change with really bad conditions of normal walking out in the summer. Just after few days i realized at midle of the day that i forgot to take pill that day and i'm nearly fine, that started to progres so i decided to stop taking pills or any other medicament complitly. Before i become vegetarian doctors where saying i will have allergy to the end of my life as i had long and strong list of allergens.

Since becoming vegetrian i aslo haven't got any flu, when before, i had flu regulary every 3-4 months.
I can again eat spice food, when before i had stomache reovultion.

I think there is much more examples like that, where people are actualy finding them-selfs in difficult situation and they really need help, so then they become more open for other possibilities, and becoming vegetarian was (and is) one of the best possibile and positive thing in my life, as it works for me physically and mentaly, and i think it will work for many other, if them only forget about cognitive dissonance, which they have been programed to belief.

Real World, see that is the kind of post I expected to see, bravo and thank you for sharing. My last few posts were directed only at Schpankme and not anyone else, as he was the one who started spewing ad hominem for no reason.

Who knows what will happen in the future, maybe my mind will be changed, although at this point I can't see a full vegan conversion happening. I imagine most people on here probably didn't foresee themselves going vegan before they did so. I like to hear about the health benefits, the science of it and philosophy of it. There's really no need for the kind of militant "I'm better then you" attitude that comes from some people.

How do you get your Vitamin B12? Some people were recommending supplements.

Slingshot wrote:My last few posts were directed only at Schpankme and not anyone else, as he was the one who started spewing ad hominem for no reason.

Hello there, you seem to be quite irritable. Maybe actually try out not eating dead bodies for awhile, your attitude might change in a positive direction. Schpankme is a stellar contributor on this forum (and has also answered your moronic questions), what good have you done here?

Slingshot wrote:
4. Why do vegans believe it morally wrong for a human to kill an animal for food? And I'm not talking about the modern commercial cattle concentration camps, I don't like those either, they are inhumane and unhealthy, filthy, and produce disgusting food like McDonald's. I'm not talking about those places or any other place that inhumanely processes millions of cows per year for maximum profit. I'm talking about the simple act of a human humanely killing an animal on his own and eating it. Why cannot a man go down to the stream and catch a trout and eat it; what makes it morally wrong or unhealthy in a vegan's eyes? What about a man shooting a deer and bringing it home to feed his family and making sure none of it goes to waste? Why do vegans demonize this natural and timeless human behavior as being something evil?
.

have you ever given yourself the time to think about the concept of life?
what is life in your mind?
the one thing we all have in common: fish, bird, bug or cat - we have all been given a chance to have life, what makes you think you have the right to take it away from another?

is your argument "if they do bad things, so can i", you see a dumb cat killing and eating another, so you think good idea! let me remind you that you are the smartest creature on earth, to act like an animal is not to use your brain, we humans are in control of the world.
do you really want to run a concept of death in your world domination. life and protection is a better concept imo.

you have the choice, to be a part of death and suffering, or not.
its a simple choice for most children.

starfox42 you said "Schpankme is a stellar contributor on this forum (and has also answered your moronic questions), what good have you done here?"

1. I didn't say he wasn't a contributor. Said that he gets butt-hurt too easily and resorts to ad hominem when someone doesn't agree. He even referenced himself as an "unchained dog barking on the other side of the fence" as if to make himself sound like an imposing force to be reckoned with or something. Idk go figure.
2. No he didn't answer them, if you re-read more carefully.
3. I signed up in 2017 but wasn't active beyond my first couple days, forgot about the forum for a while, and was just reminded of it again a couple weeks ago when I watched one of Dubay's videos. So I've been active since then. What have I done on here in the past two weeks? Not much yet. I did write up an essay on the history and usefulness of precious metals, which can be found in the off-topic discussions. Worth a read maybe. Other than that just comments here and there, and some PMs back and forth with certain very cool people on here who welcomed me and reached out to tell me they agreed with me on things I've said (but not on the meat-eating). I wasn't aware that more brownie points were awarded the more one contributes, so I guess I'll have to step up my contributions, thanks for the tip.

And no, I'm not irritable. If my responses to Schpankme sound crass, read his previous comments to see who actually started it.

Peace, and take care.
P.S. If you wish to reach the maximum number of people for FE truth (or any other truth topics), I recommend not using the same elitist approach you do when proselytizing veganism.

I was a meat and dairy junkie for years and criticised anyone who was health conscious. We were all brainwashed to think it insane to practice a diet that did not included both of these. There's no doubt about that. I was suffering from many health conditions myself, from psoriasis to deep depression and anxiety. I then came across Dan McDonald about 4 years ago. I would go so far as to say he saved my life. Almost immediately upon eliminating meat and dairy from my diet, ALL of my medical conditions either improved or disappeared completely and my energy levels went through the roof. It's much like the flat earth... once you come to the realisation, there's no way you can go back. Only a fool could turn his back on the truth. I would encourage you to try it, even for a couple of weeks. It's the only way you'll understand. Buy a juicer! Probably the best investment I have made in terms of my health. It's easy to get riled up when discussing this topic. There's people on both sides of the argument who are passionate about what they believe. Then you have people like Joe Rogan and Sv3rige sitting by the side, stoking the fire. Just try it for a bit, what have you got to lose. For me, there's simply no benefit whatsoever to consuming animal products. On the contrary, it's extremely detrimental and there's just no need for all the suffering that occurs to satisfy our desires. There's just no defense for it and we're allowed to disagree on that. I'm not going to reiterate any of the reasons why but if you watch the videos and links presented by the other users, it's all there. If you eat meat long enough, yes it will definitely catch up with you. People are so accustomed to feeling the symptoms that develop due to eating this way, that they don't notice or see a problem with it.