Cloudscapes
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Cloudscapes
by Thinkforyourself Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:33 pm
Posted by seeker on 08/01/2015
Whereas oceans are observably flat, we inland people get to see land that rises and falls -- unless we are on relatively rare flat terrain -- thus we do not get the same ability to easily verify flatness, or to visually show others. To that end cloudscapes can provide valuable input.
Living in the open country of southwestern U.S., I have been using my observational faculties to literally let my senses see the flatness. We have vast stretches and our air is relatively dry; we can often sight many miles, but it is generally a view of mountains and valleys.
A recent travel took me through the 4 corners region and even greater vistas. The Navajo Reservation is a wonder of long views, and everywhere, despite the undulations of the land, I saw “flat.” Then, while visiting a friend, we took in Mesa Verde National Park, home of the ancient cliff dwellers, and there an ultimate cloudscape awaited.
Park Point stands at 8572 feet above sea level. The view is 360 degrees. The brochure points out mountains in 4 states, ranging from 35 miles away to over 100 miles away. This is to say that one can see up to 100+ miles in every direction.
The clouds that day were cumulous, filling the sky. Looking up at the one above, I guessed it to be between only 500 to 1000 feet above us. Cumulous clouds normally inhabit a zone a mile to a mile and a half up. We were almost in the clouds.
Looking around this huge scene, my trained builder’s eye and artist’s eye saw only flatness all around in the bottom of the cloudscape. Even if I was seeing only 50 miles in each direction before the clouds merged off into perspective horizons, this was a 100-mile wide (diameter) cloud bank, perfectly flat to my eye.
I remarked on this remarkable vista to my companion. Not regarding the land, but only about the flatness of the clouds. My companion replied that it looked curved.
This brought me to question regarding how does one help another person see clearly. That is, how to explain or illustrate how the scene we are seeing compares to what we would see if we lived on a ball earth. A comparative illustration would be good, because many believe the ball is so large that the curve would be miniscule, even across 100 miles.
I am not a computer graphic artist, but if I was I would take a panoramic shot of the cloudscape from Park Point, Colorado and bend it so it arched the proper amount – as if there was a ball earth. I would do the same for an ocean horizon shot, and determine ways of measuring the distance from left to right, to show folks. Perhaps I can do this on paper with a pencil and the proper math…
Speaking of panoramic shots, the photo I have included here is from my visit to Park Point, but it does no justice to the experience, as it is only a small slice of the visual pie.
I wish I’d had my 6’ level to set up and view from a few yards back --- I’ll bet the bottom of the cloud array was as level as water all the way across.
I hope this post spurs other photos posted showing how cloudscapes show the flatness, and discussion about how we can use clouds to help others to see.
Whereas oceans are observably flat, we inland people get to see land that rises and falls -- unless we are on relatively rare flat terrain -- thus we do not get the same ability to easily verify flatness, or to visually show others. To that end cloudscapes can provide valuable input.
Living in the open country of southwestern U.S., I have been using my observational faculties to literally let my senses see the flatness. We have vast stretches and our air is relatively dry; we can often sight many miles, but it is generally a view of mountains and valleys.
A recent travel took me through the 4 corners region and even greater vistas. The Navajo Reservation is a wonder of long views, and everywhere, despite the undulations of the land, I saw “flat.” Then, while visiting a friend, we took in Mesa Verde National Park, home of the ancient cliff dwellers, and there an ultimate cloudscape awaited.
Park Point stands at 8572 feet above sea level. The view is 360 degrees. The brochure points out mountains in 4 states, ranging from 35 miles away to over 100 miles away. This is to say that one can see up to 100+ miles in every direction.
The clouds that day were cumulous, filling the sky. Looking up at the one above, I guessed it to be between only 500 to 1000 feet above us. Cumulous clouds normally inhabit a zone a mile to a mile and a half up. We were almost in the clouds.
Looking around this huge scene, my trained builder’s eye and artist’s eye saw only flatness all around in the bottom of the cloudscape. Even if I was seeing only 50 miles in each direction before the clouds merged off into perspective horizons, this was a 100-mile wide (diameter) cloud bank, perfectly flat to my eye.
I remarked on this remarkable vista to my companion. Not regarding the land, but only about the flatness of the clouds. My companion replied that it looked curved.
This brought me to question regarding how does one help another person see clearly. That is, how to explain or illustrate how the scene we are seeing compares to what we would see if we lived on a ball earth. A comparative illustration would be good, because many believe the ball is so large that the curve would be miniscule, even across 100 miles.
I am not a computer graphic artist, but if I was I would take a panoramic shot of the cloudscape from Park Point, Colorado and bend it so it arched the proper amount – as if there was a ball earth. I would do the same for an ocean horizon shot, and determine ways of measuring the distance from left to right, to show folks. Perhaps I can do this on paper with a pencil and the proper math…
Speaking of panoramic shots, the photo I have included here is from my visit to Park Point, but it does no justice to the experience, as it is only a small slice of the visual pie.
I wish I’d had my 6’ level to set up and view from a few yards back --- I’ll bet the bottom of the cloud array was as level as water all the way across.
I hope this post spurs other photos posted showing how cloudscapes show the flatness, and discussion about how we can use clouds to help others to see.
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Re: Cloudscapes
by Thinkforyourself Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:34 pm
Posted by type on 08/02/2015
Here in Norway we have a mountain called Gaustatoppen where you can see 124 miles out. You can see all around you for 23166 square miles.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaustatoppen
This has to be impossible if we live on this globe they tell us. I am new to all this, a friend of mine mentioned for me last winter that he believed the earth was flat. At first I thought he was joking, then I thought he had gone mad. But he persisted and this may month I started looking into some stuff, including reading the book by Eric Dubay "The Flat Earth Conspiracy". My head litterally turned. The facts are astounding. Its facinating reading through all the information on this forum, keep up the good work.
Here in Norway we have a mountain called Gaustatoppen where you can see 124 miles out. You can see all around you for 23166 square miles.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaustatoppen
This has to be impossible if we live on this globe they tell us. I am new to all this, a friend of mine mentioned for me last winter that he believed the earth was flat. At first I thought he was joking, then I thought he had gone mad. But he persisted and this may month I started looking into some stuff, including reading the book by Eric Dubay "The Flat Earth Conspiracy". My head litterally turned. The facts are astounding. Its facinating reading through all the information on this forum, keep up the good work.
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Re: Cloudscapes
by Thinkforyourself Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:35 pm
Posted by seeker on 08/02/2015
Good stuff about Norway and your studies! Granted, the higher we go in elevation/altitude the farther we can see, so let's be prepared when globalists point that out. However, the greater the viewing height the more the earth should appear to fall away -- if it is a globe -- right? Just as it would from an airplane, if the earth was a ball. And as has been pointed out adroitly by others, the fact that the horizon is always eye level, no matter how high we go, is strong evidence for a flat surface as well.
To me the most striking examples of what one shouldn't be able to see involve lighthouse lights, and also distant shorelines visible across bodies of water, where the viewer is only feet or scores of feet above sea level. In some of those instances, the visibility is a hundred miles or more, suggesting the obvious, that the hump of water demanded by the globe model isn't there.
This is why I think cloudscapes hold key evidence for those of us observing inland, where most the terrain rises and falls.
Today I saw another aspect, and that is that cloud-bottom flatness is more apparent the higher up we go. Whereas the huge flat plane of clouds was clearly visible to me standing on Park Point, almost eye level with the clouds, it was less easy to see today, back in my home turf where another wonderful sky full of cumulus clouds spread at least 20 miles in every direction. Only in the distance was the flatness immediately apparent, because of the angle of view. So for the clearest, most dramatic evidence, view cloudscapes from as high up as possible. For instance, I wonder if there are good cloudscape photos available, taken from a balloon.
Anyway, I bet the cloudscapes seen from Gaustatoppen are awesome!
Aug 1, 2015 18:41:36 GMT type said:
Here in Norway we have a mountain called Gaustatoppen where you can see 124 miles out. You can see all around you for 23166 square miles.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaustatoppen
This has to be impossible if we live on this globe they tell us. I am new to all this, a friend of mine mentioned for me last winter that he believed the earth was flat. At first I thought he was joking, then I thought he had gone mad. But he persisted and this may month I started looking into some stuff, including reading the book by Eric Dubay "The Flat Earth Conspiracy". My head litterally turned. The facts are astounding. Its facinating reading through all the information on this forum, keep up the good work.
Good stuff about Norway and your studies! Granted, the higher we go in elevation/altitude the farther we can see, so let's be prepared when globalists point that out. However, the greater the viewing height the more the earth should appear to fall away -- if it is a globe -- right? Just as it would from an airplane, if the earth was a ball. And as has been pointed out adroitly by others, the fact that the horizon is always eye level, no matter how high we go, is strong evidence for a flat surface as well.
To me the most striking examples of what one shouldn't be able to see involve lighthouse lights, and also distant shorelines visible across bodies of water, where the viewer is only feet or scores of feet above sea level. In some of those instances, the visibility is a hundred miles or more, suggesting the obvious, that the hump of water demanded by the globe model isn't there.
This is why I think cloudscapes hold key evidence for those of us observing inland, where most the terrain rises and falls.
Today I saw another aspect, and that is that cloud-bottom flatness is more apparent the higher up we go. Whereas the huge flat plane of clouds was clearly visible to me standing on Park Point, almost eye level with the clouds, it was less easy to see today, back in my home turf where another wonderful sky full of cumulus clouds spread at least 20 miles in every direction. Only in the distance was the flatness immediately apparent, because of the angle of view. So for the clearest, most dramatic evidence, view cloudscapes from as high up as possible. For instance, I wonder if there are good cloudscape photos available, taken from a balloon.
Anyway, I bet the cloudscapes seen from Gaustatoppen are awesome!
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Re: Cloudscapes
by Thinkforyourself Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:36 pm
Posted by fomi on 08/15/2015
i live in arizona, and have been looking at the sky and clouds my whole life , and understand very well what you are saying seeker, and i truely feel sorry for ppl that dont have the pleasure of seeing, raindrops , clouds and shadows and understand what that means abut the true shape of the earth
i live in arizona, and have been looking at the sky and clouds my whole life , and understand very well what you are saying seeker, and i truely feel sorry for ppl that dont have the pleasure of seeing, raindrops , clouds and shadows and understand what that means abut the true shape of the earth
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Re: Cloudscapes
by Thinkforyourself Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:37 pm
Posted by gnosticwarrior on 08/18/2015
The clouds and sky are nuts where I live in NH. I swear, it always looks as if the clouds are sitting on a flat sheet of glass up in the sky; it's smooth as far as the eye can follow to the horizon.
The way the sky behaves tells us a lot about the ground beneath our feet.
The clouds and sky are nuts where I live in NH. I swear, it always looks as if the clouds are sitting on a flat sheet of glass up in the sky; it's smooth as far as the eye can follow to the horizon.
The way the sky behaves tells us a lot about the ground beneath our feet.
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Re: Cloudscapes
by Thinkforyourself Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:38 pm
Posted by rebecca on 08/18/2015
I have done nine long haul flights in the last year. I posted some pics up in the proof thread. As I traveled from Sydney I went over a lot of ocean. The flatness has to been seen to be believe. So incredibly flat. The highest we reached was 50,000 but generally 44,000 gong 620 ground speed. So I could see 250 miles to the horizon. There should have been a 7 mile bump in that distance. But it was flat, flat flat.
We went above the clouds if there was any and looking down at them they flat all the way to the horizon. And the horizon always meets you at eye level. And the horizon was always straight. No curve.
As I have mentioned before the plane to keep its altitude should have been descending over 4,000' per minute. But the thing was level and I tested it with my spirit level app on my iPod. Only when we were combined in to land to it show a difference in the level.
My ball earth friends tell me that gravity would have kept the plane in its altitude without the pilot having to correct it. A sort of earth auto correcting thing! Yeah sure!
Also I am lucking I live close to the coast here in Sydney and the horizon is flat, flat , flat.
But from a plane the ocean, land and clouds and horizon are the flattest things I have ever seen!
I have done nine long haul flights in the last year. I posted some pics up in the proof thread. As I traveled from Sydney I went over a lot of ocean. The flatness has to been seen to be believe. So incredibly flat. The highest we reached was 50,000 but generally 44,000 gong 620 ground speed. So I could see 250 miles to the horizon. There should have been a 7 mile bump in that distance. But it was flat, flat flat.
We went above the clouds if there was any and looking down at them they flat all the way to the horizon. And the horizon always meets you at eye level. And the horizon was always straight. No curve.
As I have mentioned before the plane to keep its altitude should have been descending over 4,000' per minute. But the thing was level and I tested it with my spirit level app on my iPod. Only when we were combined in to land to it show a difference in the level.
My ball earth friends tell me that gravity would have kept the plane in its altitude without the pilot having to correct it. A sort of earth auto correcting thing! Yeah sure!
Also I am lucking I live close to the coast here in Sydney and the horizon is flat, flat , flat.
But from a plane the ocean, land and clouds and horizon are the flattest things I have ever seen!
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Re: Cloudscapes
by Thinkforyourself Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:39 pm
Posted by Turkey on 08/20/2015
That picture is amazing.
Digital cameras and people free to post on the internet has done more for education in a few years than the education system has done in hundreds of years.
That picture is amazing.
Digital cameras and people free to post on the internet has done more for education in a few years than the education system has done in hundreds of years.
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Re: Cloudscapes
by Thinkforyourself Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:40 pm
Posted by csp on 08/20/2015
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."
- Will Rogers
Aug 20, 2015 2:49:15 GMT Turkey said:
That picture is amazing.
Digital cameras and people free to post on the internet has done more for education in a few years than the education system has done in hundreds of years.
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."
- Will Rogers
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Re: Cloudscapes
by Thinkforyourself Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:41 pm
Posted by FDNhealthdetective on 08/21/2015
Looking at the first image by seeker of the clouds reminds me of a conversation I just had a few days ago with my wife as we were driving through Nova Scotia. I realized that the farther the clouds were away from us the more you saw the sides or front of the clouds and less the bottom. It should be the opposite on a globe. The farther away the cloud you should see more of the bottom as it follows the curvature of the earth's surface and appears to tilt away from us. I pointed this out to my wife and she understand the dilemma but in no way could explain it. The truth is right in front of us!
Looking at the first image by seeker of the clouds reminds me of a conversation I just had a few days ago with my wife as we were driving through Nova Scotia. I realized that the farther the clouds were away from us the more you saw the sides or front of the clouds and less the bottom. It should be the opposite on a globe. The farther away the cloud you should see more of the bottom as it follows the curvature of the earth's surface and appears to tilt away from us. I pointed this out to my wife and she understand the dilemma but in no way could explain it. The truth is right in front of us!
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Some Cloud Movement to Ponder
by FlatEartherInNH Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:36 pm
Was outside working the other day, looked up, had to film it.
Less than a minute long, but I believe it reinforces that we're not on a spinning ball.
It's my 1st YT vid, very simple, hope you enjoy.
Less than a minute long, but I believe it reinforces that we're not on a spinning ball.
It's my 1st YT vid, very simple, hope you enjoy.
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Re: Cloudscapes
by Wondering Man Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:36 am
A few pictures from today, not my own, taken from a local facebook group. My first thought, is that the sun with clouds in front and behind?
Limited details about the pics other than they're taken from North west England in the late evening.
Limited details about the pics other than they're taken from North west England in the late evening.
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Re: Cloudscapes
by pathfinder Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:51 pm
Wanted to chime in here on the cloud discussion as I have recently been thinking on it. What I got to thinking was very telling isn't that the clouds were flat out to the horizon since they do drop down to the vanishing point which can be misleading, but that if the clouds are above us arcing over us on a sphere , why is it that we can see the sides and tops of them in the distance. If they're arcing over us we shouldn't be able to see much more than the bottoms of them all the time. If on a clear day we could visually with telescope- track a plane flying as it enters or leaves the horizon, that plane traveling at 36000ft and a hundred miles away should look as if it's point up (flying towards us), or pointed down (flying away) on a globe earth, not 90 degrees obviously- but some noticeable angle. Could someone who is familiar with the globe math chime in and describe what angle a cloud arcing thousands of feet overhead would be at a viewable horizon of say 80 to 100 miles away and how it would look from the ground thousands of feet below? Wouldn't these items oddly always be showing us their bottoms to a noticable extent?
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Re: Cloudscapes
by FL@T-E@RTH Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:23 am
Excellent point and one I had never even postulated before, as you say, 'globe theory' should indeed distort the appearance of the clouds as they move away to the horizon.
I am not well versed in globe math, so I cannot help, but I will say, as with all 'Globe Earthers', they will explain the cloud phenomenon (we observe) and you describe with either of their two favourtie 'proofs' - Gravity or Relativity :p (two THEORIES, not FACTS!)
I am not well versed in globe math, so I cannot help, but I will say, as with all 'Globe Earthers', they will explain the cloud phenomenon (we observe) and you describe with either of their two favourtie 'proofs' - Gravity or Relativity :p (two THEORIES, not FACTS!)
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Re: Cloudscapes
by Ifersgold Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:09 pm
This is the best place I could find to post my recent discovery. Noctilucent clouds.
A few days ago I woke up in the middle of the night thinking it was dawn. It was not. Just bright clouds in the sky. It turns out they were nocilucent clouds seen by a lot t of people and registering on the main feeds on the net.
This cloud phenomena is explained by the clouds being very high in the atmosphere. So high they reflect the sun's light. It seems to me this can be used in support of the flat earth model. Especially if the can be observed ina place in the sky that is supposed to be completely in the shadow of the globe.
By noting the the time and location of the nocti-clouds we can see if the phenomena is being observed in the shadow of the globe. If yes it is another flat earth proof. The obvious conclusion is the clouds are reflecting light from the sun below the clouds.
The noctilucent clouds are extremely rare. They are an indication of very cold temperatures in the sky. They have been observed more frequently lately.
From the north east corner in Nevada at around 3 am would there be any chance those clouds reflecting sunlight with the globe model? My hunch is no. My hunch is that my location was well in the earth's shadow via the globe model.
This might be another flat earth proof. ???
A few days ago I woke up in the middle of the night thinking it was dawn. It was not. Just bright clouds in the sky. It turns out they were nocilucent clouds seen by a lot t of people and registering on the main feeds on the net.
This cloud phenomena is explained by the clouds being very high in the atmosphere. So high they reflect the sun's light. It seems to me this can be used in support of the flat earth model. Especially if the can be observed ina place in the sky that is supposed to be completely in the shadow of the globe.
By noting the the time and location of the nocti-clouds we can see if the phenomena is being observed in the shadow of the globe. If yes it is another flat earth proof. The obvious conclusion is the clouds are reflecting light from the sun below the clouds.
The noctilucent clouds are extremely rare. They are an indication of very cold temperatures in the sky. They have been observed more frequently lately.
From the north east corner in Nevada at around 3 am would there be any chance those clouds reflecting sunlight with the globe model? My hunch is no. My hunch is that my location was well in the earth's shadow via the globe model.
This might be another flat earth proof. ???
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