What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

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What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:50 pm

Posted by Admin on 05/27/2015


Newton theorized and it is now commonly taught that the Earth’s ocean tides are caused by gravitational lunar attraction. If the Moon is only 2,160 miles in diameter and the Earth 8,000 miles, however, using their own math and “law,” it follows that the Earth is 87 times more massive and therefore the larger object should attract the smaller to it, and not the other way around. If the Earth’s greater gravity is what keeps the Moon in orbit, it is impossible for the Moon’s lesser gravity to supersede the Earth’s gravity at Earth’s sea-level, where its gravitational attraction would even further out-trump the Moon’s. Not to mention, the velocity and path of the Moon are uniform and should therefore exert a uniform influence on the Earth’s tides, when in actuality the Earth’s tides vary greatly. Furthermore, if ocean tides are caused by the Moon’s gravitation, how is it that lakes, ponds, and other smaller bodies of standing water remain outside the Moon’s grasp, while the gigantic oceans are so effected!?



“If the moon lifted up the water, it is evident that near the land, the water would be drawn away and low instead of high tide caused. Again, the velocity and path of the moon are uniform, and it follows that if she exerted any influence on the earth, that influence could only be a uniform influence. But the tides are not uniform. At Port Natal the rise and fall is about 6 feet, while at Beira, about 600 miles up the coast, the rise and fall is 26 feet. This effectually settles the matter that the moon has no influence on the tides. Tides are caused by the gentle and gradual rise and fall of the earth on the bosom of the mighty deep. In inland lakes, there are no tides; which also proves that the moon cannot attract either the earth or water to cause tides. But the fact that the basin of the lake is on the earth which rests on the waters of the deep shows that no tides are possible, as the waters of the lakes together with the earth rise and fall, and thus the tides at the coast are caused; while there are no tides on waters unconnected with the sea.” -Thomas Winship, “Zetetic Cosmogeny” (130-131)

“It is affirmed that the intensity of attraction increases with proximity, and vice versâ. How, then, when the waters are drawn up by the moon from their bed, and away from the earth's attraction,--which at that greater distance from the centre is considerably diminished, while that of the moon is proportionately increased--is it possible that all the waters acted on should be prevented leaving the earth and flying away to the moon? If the moon has power of attraction sufficient to lift the waters of the earth at all, even a single inch from their deepest receptacles, where the earth's attraction is much the greater, there is nothing in the theory of attraction of gravitation to prevent her taking to herself all the waters which come within her influence. Let the smaller body once overcome the power of the larger, and the power of the smaller becomes greater than when it first operated, because the matter acted on is nearer to it. Proximity is greater, and therefore power is greater … How then can the waters of the ocean immediately underneath the moon flow towards the shores, and so cause a flood tide? Water flows, it is said, through the law of gravity, or attraction of the earth's centre; is it possible then for the moon, having once overcome the power of the earth, to let go her hold upon the waters, through the influence of a power which she has conquered, and which therefore, is less than her own? … The above and other difficulties which exist in connection with the explanation of the tides afforded by the Newtonian system, have led many, including Sir Isaac Newton himself, to admit that such explanation is the least satisfactory portion of the ‘theory of gravitation.’ Thus we have been carried forward by the sheer force of evidence to the conclusion that the tides of the sea do not arise from the attraction of the moon, but simply from the rising and falling of the floating earth in the waters of the ‘great deep.’ That calmness which is found to exist at the bottom of the great seas could not be possible if the waters were alternately raised by the moon and pulled down by the earth.” -Dr. Samuel Rowbotham, “Zetetic Astronomy, Earth Not a Globe!” (159-175)



“Even Sir Isaac Newton himself confessed that the explanation of the Moon's action on the Tides was the least satisfactory part of his theory of Gravitation. This theory asserts that the larger object attracts the smaller, and the mass of the Moon being reckoned as only one-eighth of that of the Earth, it follows that, if, by the presumed force of Gravitation, the Earth revolves round the Sun, much more, for the same reason, should the Moon do so likewise, instead of which that willful orb still continues to go round our world. Tides vary greatly in height, owing chiefly to the different configurations of the adjoining lands. At Chepstow it rises to 60 feet, at Portishead to 50, while at Dublin Bay it is but 1 2, and at Wexford only 5 feet … That the Earth itself has a slight tremulous motion may be seen in the movement of the spirit-level, even when fixed as steadily as possible, and that the sea has a fluctuation may be witnessed by the oscillation of an anchored ship in the calmest day of summer. By what means the tides are so regularly affected is at present only conjectured; possibly it may be by atmospheric pressure on the waters of the Great Deep, and perhaps even the Moon itself, as suggested by the late Dr. Rowbotham, may influence the atmosphere, increasing or diminishing its barometric pressure, and indirectly the rise and fall of the Earth in the waters.” -David Wardlaw Scott, “Terra Firma” (259-260)

“Bearing this fact in mind, that there exists a continual pressure of the atmosphere upon the Earth, and associating it with the fact that the Earth is a vast plane ‘stretched out upon the waters,’ and it will be seen that it must of necessity slightly fluctuate, or slowly rise and fall in the water. As by the action of the atmosphere the Earth is slowly depressed, the water moves towards the receding shore and produces the flood tide; and when by the reaction of the resisting oceanic medium the Earth gradually ascends the waters recede, and the ebb tide is produced. This is the general cause of tides. Whatever peculiarities are observable they may be traced to the reaction of channels, bays, headlands, and other local causes … That the Earth has a vibratory or tremulous motion, such as must necessarily belong to a floating and fluctuating structure, is abundantly proved by the experience of astronomers and surveyors. If a delicate spirit-level be firmly placed upon a rock or upon the most solid foundation which it is possible to construct, the very curious phenomenon will be observed of constant change in the position of the air-bubble. However carefully the ‘level’ may be adjusted, and the instrument protected from the atmosphere, the ‘bubble’ will not maintain its position many seconds together. A somewhat similar influence has been noticed in astronomical observatories, where instruments of the best construction and placed in the most approved positions cannot always be relied upon without occasional re-adjustment.” -Dr. Samuel Rowbotham, “Earth Not a Globe, 2nd Edition” (108-110)

If the Moon pulled the tides due to its "gravity" (which I've proven doesn't exist) then why does it only "pull" the ocean's water and not all the world's lakes, marshes, ponds and other inland waters!? The tides are clearly a product of the inter-connected ocean waters (and NOT the other waters of Earth) and therefore caused either by "the gentle rocking of the Earth on the great deep" as stated by the above 19th century authors OR if more ancient explorers can be trusted, the ocean tides very well may be caused by a huge whirlpool vortex surrounding Mount Meru at the North Pole which reverses direction every 6 hours alternately sucking in and pushing out the great seas of Earth, like the breath of Gaia at the naval center-point of Earth breathing in and out twice per day.








The 14th century writings Inventio Fortunata by Nicholas de Linna and The Itinerium of Jacobus Cnoyen mention the magnetic mountain being so powerful that it pulled the nails right out of explorer’s boats! The encircling whirlpool and four directional rivers surrounding the mountain were said to change every 6 hours causing the tides, comparing them to the “breath of God” at the “naval of the Earth,” inhaling and exhaling the great seas. The cartographer Gerardus Mercator's 16th century map below informs us that the waters of the oceans are carried northward to the Pole through these rivers with great force, such that no wind could make a ship sail against the current. The waters then disappear into an enormous whirlpool beneath the mountain at the Pole, and are absorbed into the bowels of the earth. 



“A monstrous gulf in the sea towards which from all sides the billows of the sea coming from remote parts converge and run together as though brought there by a conduit, pouring into these mysterious abysses of nature, they are as though devoured thereby and, should it happen that a vessel pass there, it is seized and drawn away with such powerful violence of the waves that this hungry force immediately swallows it up never to appear again.” -Gerardus Mercator

Fridtjof Nansen has found mentions of a great northern whirlpool in Norse legends of the world's well, "Hvergelmer," which causes the tides by pushing and pulling water through its subterranean channels, Isidore of Seville (c.560-636), the Gesta hammaburgensis ecclesiae pontificum of Adam Bremensis (11th century), the Topographia hibernica of Giraldus Cambrensis (1146-1220; his description of the northern whirlpool is cited by Mercator), the Historia norvegiae (c.1180), the Speculum regale (c. 1250) of Einer Gunnarson, and a particularly interesting quote from the Langobard author Paulus Warnefridi (c.720-790), also called Diaconus: "And not far from the shore which we before spoke of, on the west, where the ocean extends without bounds, is that very deep abyss of waters which we commonly call the ocean's navel. It is said twice a day to suck the waves into itself, and to spew them out again; as is proved to happen along all these coasts, where the waves rush in and go back again with fearful rapidity.... By the whirlpool of which we have spoken it is asserted that ships are often drawn in with such rapidity that they seem to resemble the flight of arrows through the air; and sometimes they are lost in the gulf with a very frightful destruction. Often just as they are about to go under, they are brought back again by a sudden shockofthe waves, and they are sent out again thence with the same rapidity with which they were drawn in."



In “Gesta Hammaburgensis Ecclesiae Pontificum” states that Archbishop Adalbert told of a team of noble men of Frisia around 1035-1043 set sail to explore the north polar region. As they headed north beyond Greenland, “of a sudden they fell into that numbing ocean’s dark mist which could hardly be penetrated with the eyes. And behold, the current of the fluctuating ocean whirled back to its mysterious fountainhead and with most furious impetuosity drew the unhappy sailors, who in their despair now thought only of death, on to chaos; this they say is the ‘abysmal chasm’ - that deep in which report has it that all the back flow of the sea, which appears to decrease, is absorbed and in turn revomited, as the mounting fluctuation is usually described. As the partners were imploring the mercy of God to receive their souls, the backward thrust of the sea carried away some of their ships, but its forward ejection threw the rest far behind the others. Freed thus by the timely help of God from the instant peril they had had before their eyes, they seconded the flood by rowing with all their might. 


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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:50 pm

Posted by lizardking on 05/28/2015
Thank you for this post Eric!

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:51 pm

Posted by ricaius on 06/12/2015
Tides = Breath of Earth


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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:52 pm

Posted by thinkforyourself on 06/19/2015
Jun 18, 2015 20:42:14 GMT o said:

Jun 18, 2015 19:58:59 GMT ricaius said:


Interesting, but if this is the case, why lakes don't have tides?


Although I am seeing the "lakes do not have tides" sentence a lot, there are websites that give lake tide data on daily basis.

Quoted*:
"...the largest tides caused by the combined forces of the sun and moon, is less than five centimeters in height. These minor variations are masked by the greater fluctuations in lake levels produced by wind and barometric pressure changes... "


The entire 'Moon causes waves' theory is absolute NWO bullshit. If the Moon was powerful enough to cause the Oceans to move, then it would also move all Swimming Pools, Lakes, Streams, Rivers, Ponds and other bodies of water. This is not what happens in reality, and many Lakes that I have visited certainly don't have waves, and the Ponds and Swimming Pools that I have observed certainly don't. 

That is why I am certain that the Moon has nothing to do with the waves, either through the official NWO theory or through its light. If the properties of the Moon's light caused waves, why wouldn't they cause them indiscriminately on all bodies of water?

I personally find other theories more plausible.

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:53 pm

Posted by icedrink58 on 06/19/2015
Of course the connection of moonlight and the tides of th ocean is just pure speculation, but if somehow the moonlight has an effect on the magnetic mountain at the north pole (causing those whirlpools Eric wrote about), then at least it would explain why only the oceans are affected. The oceans are all connected and "in contact" with magnetic north. The lakes, ponds and marches have no waters that are connected to magnetic north.

No offense, but i don't get the "gentle rocking of the earth on the great waters of deep". What would be the cause for this gentle rocking? And shouldn't that also affect lakes as well?

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:53 pm

Posted by thinkforyourself on 06/19/2015

Jun 19, 2015 3:52:17 GMT icedrink58 said:
Of course the connection of moonlight and the tides of th ocean is just pure speculation, but if somehow the moonlight has an effect on the magnetic mountain at the north pole (causing those whirlpools Eric wrote about), then at least it would explain why only the oceans are affected. The oceans are all connected and "in contact" with magnetic north. The lakes, ponds and marches have no waters that are connected to magnetic north.

No offense, but i don't get the "gentle rocking of the earth on the great waters of deep". What would be the cause for this gentle rocking? And shouldn't that also affect lakes as well?


I am not suggesting that gentle rocking is the answer, and I never said anything about it in my comments. 

I personally believe that Mount Meru may very well control the Moon and the Sun through some form of magnetic power, and I don't believe that the Moon has any affect on Mount Meru. I believe that it is the other way round, and that the Moon is affected by Meru. Again, that is pure speculation, but it makes more sense than other theories I have heard. 

I repeat what I said before regarding small bodies of water; Swimming Pools, Ponds, Streams, Rivers and Lakes all act differently to the Ocean and its waves, and thus a force in the sky would have to be discriminate in order to simply make the Ocean have waves. I find this very unlikely. 

Magnetism alone does not seem likely either, because it would have to be strong enough to move all of the oceans, whilst ignoring the rivers and streams and other tributaries that connect to them.  

The idea that Mount Meru causes giant whirlpools, which then affect the Oceans, which are all continuous bodies of water, makes more sense, because it would explain why smaller bodies of water such as Ponds, are not affected. 

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:54 pm

Posted by icedrink58 on 06/20/2015



Jun 19, 2015 12:07:28 GMT thinkforyourself said:
I repeat what I said before regarding small bodies of water; Swimming Pools, Ponds, Streams, Rivers and Lakes all act differently to the Ocean and its waves, and thus a force in the sky would have to be discriminate in order to simply make the Ocean have waves. I find this very unlikely. 




Ok, i agree 100%
(i was also considering the different densities of water because of the moonlight that Schauberger researched, but this would have to include lakes, ponds, etc.)

But.....Something affects the oceans to have tides in a rhythm of 6 hours. What could that something be? Physics books all say it's the gravity of the moon (BS). I have to say i haven't looked really into how they are explaining the 6 h rhythm, but my thinking is like... Ok, they are confident about the moon and the 6 h rhythm, so maybe there could be a connection of the moon and mount Meru - that connection being moonlight with its strange properties (remember mount Meru is only connected to the oceans and therefore there is no effect on lakes and so on). Because if one would say it's only mount Meru that somehow causes the tides, then this doesn't explain the 6 h rhythm at all. See where i'm coming from? How has mount Meru a rhythm? The rhythmic thing which is obvious to everyone would be the movement of the sun and moon.

But this is really only speculation and i might be totally wrong. Nevertheless all those sceptics always want you to come up with a good explanation. And you know what....i don't have an explanation that i'm totally convinced it has to be only that way and every other theory must be wrong.

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:54 pm

Posted by o on 06/21/2015
It is said that the 6 hour tide rhythm also has a path, 1/12 of the tide in the first hour, 2/12 in the second, 3/12 in the third hour and backwards following the same ratios.

It would have been easy -if we were not under artificial lights- to make the observations by keeping a log of our own body fluid activity changes as they are also affected by the moon. (even if this is just a theory, it applies to me and many others in my circle)

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:55 pm

Posted by katou on 07/15/2015
This site is great and does get the mind to thinking .In another thread we were shown that Moon light causes a surface to cool .I am not sure if Thermodynamicsen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics might not be the mechanism for the tides . Heat that is stored in the water column would naturally seek out the colder point .In part of the transfer the lower molecules would be lifted up . Looking at much of the science on climate change I have never noticed the moon light phenomenon factored in . One paper was about the missing heat and it was speculated that it was hiding in the oceans .Not saying it is or isn't the case but it should have some published papers on the matter some where . I am off to see what I can find ....peace

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:58 pm

Posted by mikegdc on 08/10/2015
I found a couple of interesting maps. One shows the average height of the world's ocean(s) and clearly shows the multiple "high points" and the other map shows the effect of the tides, world wide. 

Point being, if the tides were caused by any 'thing', be that something in the sky or some source (single whirlpool, etc)then there should be a pattern observable. These maps (assuming their authenticity/accuracy) indicate multiple sources ...

I'm new, here, so for some reason, I can't seem to copy/paste the map images....
here are the links

and descriptions of the images :
" And this image shows more details, representing a data sets for six years of observations. The so-called tidal energy dissipation thus displayed is affected in part by variations in sea surface heights which establish gradients that cause water flow that influences tidal rises or falls "

ces.iisc.ernet.in/hpg/envis/Remote/section1412_files/dissipation.jpeg


"From this can be derived this broad outline of the current flow lines outward from the highs:"

ces.iisc.ernet.in/hpg/envis/Remote/section1412_files/TidalPatterns.jpeg

Interesting discussion, thanks

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:59 pm

Posted by susie on 08/10/2015


Experiments with Water and magnetism.

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:00 pm

Posted by csp on 08/11/2015
Agreed, great find susie.

An easy experiment anyone can do too!

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:00 pm

Posted by majorepiphany on 09/03/2015
Does anyone know of an experiment that we could do to check if the Sun/Moon have any properties that affect the oceans due to their salt content. As shown in the previously posted video, the salt content in the Ocean water would indeed increase the water's ability to respond to magnets. Tide levels do seem to be fairly consistent and predictable, and rhythmic as well. Perhaps it could be as simple as estimating the location of the sun and moon during a city's high/low tides. A time and date site may come in handy here. There is about a 6-7 (this varies) hour difference between high and low tides in most places. This would correlate with the sun and moon traveling over the flat earth in it's 24 hour cycle. 

Myrtle Beach, SC: June 30, 2015 - Full moon (EASTERN TIME)

1st 6 hour segment - Low tide at 12:51 am - High tide at 6:34 am Moon would be close to overhead at low tide and leaving as the tide raises. (Sunrise 6:08am)

2nd 6 hour segment - High tide at 6:34 am - Low tide at 12:50 pm Sun would be moving toward the beach. Sun is closest when tide is lowest. 

3rd 6 hour segment - Low tide at 12:50 pm - High tide at 7:11 pm Sun is setting during high tide. High tide occurs between the departure of the sun and the arrival of the moon. 

4th 6 hour segment - High tide at 7:11 pm - Low tide at 1:38 am Moon is moving to its nearest position during low tide. (Sunset 8:30pm) 

If the sun and moon do have a magnetic or electromagnetic effect on the Ocean's salt water, they both seem to have a similar effect causing low tides when they are nearest to being overhead. Perhaps they are repelling water, which would cause more water to move towards the coast when they are over the open ocean. The high tides in these charts are when the Sun and/or moon are over the Atlantic ocean. If they are repelling water then this could cause a large surge of water to head to the coasts, causing high tides. This should then have a similar effect on the other side of the ocean at a similar time. 


Casablanca, Morocco: June 29-30, 2015 (CONVERTED TO EASTERN TIME FROM WESTERN EUROPEAN TIME)

Tide cycles in Casablanca seem to be 2 hours removed from that on the east cost of the United states. 
Casablanca gets low tide at 2:40 am, 2 hours after Myrtle Beach had low tide at 12:51 am. 

1st 6 hour segment (29th-30th) - High tide at 8:37 pm - Low tide at 2:40 am ET Sunrise at 1:23 am ET. Moon is over Atlantic Ocean.

2nd 6 hour segment - Low tide at 2:40 am - High tide at 8:59 am ET 

3rd 6 hour segment - High tide at 8:59 am - Low tide at 3:09 pm ET Sunset at 3:44 pm ET. Sun is over Atlantic Ocean.

4th 6 hour segment - Low tide at 3:09 pm - High tide at 9:20 pm ET 

In Myrtle Beach, high tide occurs during the sunset and sunrise hours.
In Casablanca, low tide occurs during the sunset and sunrise hours. 
I am assuming this occurs because of the Sun's east to west motion. If the sun were repelling the large body of salt water (the Atlantic in this case), it would be repelling the water in different directions toward all coast lines. The 2 hour delay is likely caused by the sun on its journey to the center of the Atlantic. Or, at the very least, a position near the "center."

I would like to continue to study this with more coastlines, preferably where I can get 4 different angles rather than two. I would love to know what others think of this. If I am barking up the wrong tree let me know. 

Casablanca Tides tides.mobilegeographics.com/locations/1072.html?y=2015&m=6&d=30

Myrtle Beach tides sunnydayguide.com/myrtle-beach/tide-charts

Does anyone know of a way we can test salt water's reaction to the sun and moon on a smaller scale? 

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:00 pm

Posted by majorepiphany on 09/04/2015
I looked into it a little more using different coastlines and the position of the sun and moon over the flat earth. This is what I came up with. 

Let's assume that the sun and moon have electromagnetic properties. 

The sun and moon would repel water. In Sines, Portugal, if facing toward the coast, west toward the ocean, the sun would be coming from behind the viewer. This would cause low tide at noon because the sun would be overhead and would be pushing the water away from the coast. High tide occurs during the sunset hours, when the sun is passing over the Atlantic Ocean. It would be repelling water back toward the beach causing high tide. The severity of the tide changes with the weather and the sun/moon's distance from that particular coastline, which will vary with seasonal changes.

In San Salvador (Caribbean) the tide is highest at noon because the sun has been pushing water from the Atlantic Ocean toward the coast. This is caused by its east-west motion over the Atlantic. San Salvador experiences low tide at approximately 6 pm, when neither the sun nor the moon are affecting the Atlantic at the most direct times. 

It seems that the magnetism of the sun and moon cause the oceans to swell, creating tides. The Oceans respond because of their large salt content, which drastically increases the re-activity to magnets. This is why bodies of fresh water stay calm. Considering the size of the ocean, the tides are a very small change in relative shape and size. 

Gravity does not explain tides. Gravity would also affect large bodies of fresh water, because they are a large mass. Things would fly higher when the moon is out, which is not the case. 

Gravity does NOT exist. It is still just a theory and it is only necessary if we live on a ball. But, we don't live on a ball. 

Please feel free to expound upon or correct this theory. 

I'm going to see if there are consistent tides in lakes with high salt content.

***All Credit to Ashlee Webster for putting forth the idea - I am just trying to confirm it***

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:02 pm

Posted by rare on 09/04/2015
This is great stuff and a lot of it goes over my head and I bow to the research.

Imagine if those of us along every coast did the same. That would be a field of study that no-one could predict or argue. I live on a coast. We could do it. But I must put up some fields of battle.

Most of us accept the attitudes of magnetism with regards to salt water but we must understand that magnetism takes many forms on earth.


Experiments we can do in a bowl with man-made diamagnetic metals are little proof of tides or repulsion of waves and only show that in the field of magnetism there is a magnet to fit any opposite or positive reaction experiment proved on the earth. There are almost as many magnets and fields as grass waving in a field. 



With respect please be careful when using the phrase, 'it's just a theory' in a scientific shoot down. It could be the easiest way to knock down your argument by pure linguistics. It's not the same definition. Gravity is an accepted 'scientific' theory which does not mean the same as 'theory' or speculation in English. 

A scientific theory's factors and calculations are used to model the (their) universe to fit. You start from accepting gravity and move along from there. i.e. it is a proven scientific theory in their model, the same as relativity. 


If you say 'it's just a theory' it isn't in the sense you may hope to mean. In fact it's conforming. 

It is not a theory in the same way you may say the sun is an orange or that Shakespeare did not write his plays. It is a 'scientific theory' which is a base (in all science fields) to build other theories and in that sense it works and is proven because all other theories that need it to work stem from it and prove it. i.e, relativity works if you dismiss the aether model. Therefore it is a scientific theory that can be proved once this is factored out (I'm simplifying). 


You would be better to propose to disregard it as a theory at all because it's basis is false and therefore every calculation measured from it is false and only works in its own premise and not in the normal scientific process which has been superseded by false mathematics. Google scientific theory and you'll see the difference in definition. Avoid slamming it down as a theory. Don't even use that word.


TLDR: Scientific theory is not the same as a theory. There is more than one type of magnetism. Don't go there! As Admiral Ackbar says, 'It's a trap!'

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:02 pm

Posted by majorepiphany on 09/04/2015
I was definitely forming that gravity statement to my audience here. I don't even debate gravity worshipers anymore as they have too much cognitive dissonance. 

I wanted to ask again if anyone knows of an experiment that could be done to test salt water or identify the magnetic traits of the sun/moon. I would love some input as many of the factors going into this go over my head. We would have to consider the type/amount of salt content in the ocean, dealing with evaporation, wind, environment, humidity, and other sorts of weather. I'm going to continue to think about it some more but I don't have any grand ideas just yet. 

What was the explanation for tides before "g(od)ravity came on the scene?

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:02 pm

Posted by viceorvirtue on 09/09/2015
I believe the tides are caused by density. Water is most dense at 4 degrees Celsius
www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=ByjvVcerAof98wez_KSIDw&gws_rd=ssl#q=at+what+temperature+is+water+most+dense

Now looky here, seems like the temperature at which water is most dense, is also the average temperature of the ocean
www.windows2universe.org/earth/Water/images/temperature_depth.jpg

Of course the sun and moon influence the tides as they warm and cool the oceans

Usually the most simple explanations are true.

That's my 50 cents.

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:03 pm

Posted by zensuan on 09/16/2015
What about the salinity and viscosity of ocean waters, as opposed to the more fluid freshwater of lakes, rivers, ponds and clouds? Saltwater being more dense and viscous, would that have anything to do with the fact that various hypothetical causes of tides - whether it's Mount Meru's river whirlpool, or the Moon or the Sun, or even the "gentle rocking of the earth on the great waters of deep" - act upon oceans and not on other bodies of water? Some people say their bodies seem affected in a regular six-hour cycle just like the tides. Our bodies are highly saline too.

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:03 pm

Posted by thinkforyourself on 09/16/2015
Sept 15, 2015 15:17:12 GMT zensuan said:
What about the salinity and viscosity of ocean waters, as opposed to the more fluid freshwater of lakes, rivers, ponds and clouds? Saltwater being more dense and viscous, would that have anything to do with the fact that various hypothetical causes of tides - whether it's Mount Meru's river whirlpool, or the Moon or the Sun, or even the "gentle rocking of the earth on the great waters of deep" - act upon oceans and not on other bodies of water? Some people say their bodies seem affected in a regular six-hour cycle just like the tides. Our bodies are highly saline too.


You raise an interesting point. We don't claim to know the answer; all we can do is hypothesise. 

All I know is that it is ridiculous to claim that the Moon causes tides; as we have repeatedly pointed out, it would affect all bodies of water (saline or not), and if it were close enough to the Earth to have an effect on the tides, then it would also be close enough to be sucked into the atmosphere of our planet. They can't have it both ways, even with magic 'gravity'. 

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:04 pm

Posted by icedrink58 on 09/16/2015
In my train of thought the moon has to have something to do with the tides. Of course we all know an explanation based on gravity must be bullshit. That is understood.
So why do i think there is still a connection?
Well, it wouldn't make sense for the freemasons or whoever to just make this connection up for NO REASON. Why should they do that? Ok at some point in history they came up with their magic gravity, but this is just their BS explanation on why there is a coonection between moon and tides in the first place. So the connection already was made and they just used it to give further fake-proof for gravity. If the connection would not have already been there (from acknowledged observations i guess), then why the need to make it up? 
If there wasn't any 6 hour rhythm to the tides...do you think they would have explained it by moon-gravity? Of course not.
 
When you look up "tide" on wikipedia you will notice that the connection between tides and the moon was made way before the times of Copernicus, Kepler, Newton and so on.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide
Quote: "From ancient times, tidal observation and discussion has increased in sophistication, first marking the daily recurrence, then tides' relationship to the sun and moon. Pytheas travelled to the British Isles about 325 BC and seems to be the first to have related spring tides to the phase of the moon."

So i believe there actually is a connection between the moon (or maybe also the sun) with the tides. How this works i have no clue, but maybe there is some electromagnetical force that connects with the dissolved ions (to be found in saline water --> oceans, bodily fluids and NOT in rivers and ponds, at least to a very much lower extend). Maybe it has something to do with density (think of Viktor Schauberger and what he observed during full moon nights) or the moon (and sun) somehow affect Mount Meru which is connected only to seawater. Or something completely differnt.

But if i understand correctly we also have no fucking clue why moonlight is cold and septic, right? 
So at this point i would not just blindly rule out the moon or its light. For now i believe it actually affects the water and must be involved with creating the tides. Maybe this turns out to be BS, but for now i have to keep this possibility open.

Question: Do we know what are the Ancient's beliefs about the cause of the tides?

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:04 pm

Posted by thinkforyourself on 09/16/2015
Sept 15, 2015 19:04:12 GMT icedrink58 said:

In my train of thought the moon has to have something to do with the tides. Of course we all know an explanation based on gravity must be bullshit. That is understood.
So why do i think there is still a connection?
Well, it wouldn't make sense for the freemasons or whoever to just make this connection up for NO REASON. Why should they do that? Ok at some point in history they came up with their magic gravity, but this is just their BS explanation on why there is a coonection between moon and tides in the first place. So the connection already was made and they just used it to give further fake-proof for gravity. If the connection would not have already been there (from acknowledged observations i guess), then why the need to make it up? 
If there wasn't any 6 hour rhythm to the tides...do you think they would have explained it by moon-gravity? Of course not.
 
When you look up "tide" on wikipedia you will notice that the connection between tides and the moon was made way before the times of Copernicus, Kepler, Newton and so on.


I am not blindly ruling out anything other than the official NWO lies. As said, all we can do is hypothesise at this stage. 

You may well be correct in saying that the Moon still has some involvement and quite possibly the Sun as well. Seeing as there was an ancient belief that Mount Meru was linked to the Moon and Sun, and seeing as Mount Meru may be involved in the movement of the Sun and Moon, and the creation of ocean tides, then maybe they are all linked? 

I would also be very interested in knowing what the ancient people thought about the tides. 

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:05 pm

Posted by micra on 09/17/2015
Tides.
Researching Tide activity in the mediterranean unearthed the usual hodge podge of yahoo and google answers from armchair parrots.

By far the most interesting was a link: (Be warned he used the G word)
link
Ocenography:tides by Dr.J Floor

Here he spells out the simple standard model but compiles a list of insurmountable problems here:

" Wave speed: since the tide is just another gravity wave travelling along the ocean's surface, it must satisfy the laws for waves as explained in the wave chapter. For a wave to travel along the equator of 40,000 km in 25 hours, requires a speed of around 1600 km/hr, which is not sustainable. The maximum wave speed in a 'channel' of 5000m deep is about 800km/hr. Average depth of the ocean is around 3800m, demanding a lower speed still.
• Bouncing off continents: As the tide wave reaches a continent, most of it will be bounced back off the continental shelf, causing a tide wave of almost equal height to run in the opposite direction. This is not observed in real life.
• Starting and stopping: as the tide wave apparently needs to start at one continent and stop at the other, it would be larger at the continent where it arrives and smaller where it came from. During the starting and stopping, far too much energy would be wasted. This is not in accordance with tidal movements world-wide.
• Zero, one and two tides each day: there are places without tide, with one tide and most with two tides each day. This cannot be explained.
• Tide height: the height of the tide, the difference between high and low tide, does not follow the two-bulge idea which suggests that the tide should be maximal around the equator or on opposite sides of a large ocean. Near the equator one can find places without tides and places with near-maximal tides.
• Tide timing: high tide occurs at different times of the lunar cycle, depending more on one's place on Earth than on the position of the moon.
• The balancing bulge on the other side is hard to explain.

There is obviously a better explanation of how tides move around the world".

He then analyses tide tables to find points or nodes:

"In the early seventies, as computers were able to model wave behaviour, they were able to show that tide waves would run in ways to prevent loss of energy. Instead of running east to west, tide waves run around in circles (clockwise and CCW on both hemispheres) around islands, and certain points in the sea, called nodes. The map shown here shows the tides circling around their nodes in 30º increments (12 parts to 25/2 hours) in the directions of the solid arrows. Each solid line connects tide levels in the ocean that are at the same phase. The dotted lines show tide amplitude (half tide height) in cm. This early model has been shown to agree with reality and, for its time, has been a remarkable achievement of computational mathematics. From this map one can see that some places in the world (the nodes) have no tides, others two (12 lines) and a few places one (24 lines). (Picture from Van Dorn, 1974) "

If one positions these points on the preferred map of choice its evident that the nodes are around the circumference and the higher mid region.

Crustal buckling is cited as the reasoning behind these tidal movements notably around these nodes. 
How could this be attributed to some "gravity" from the moon which in one situation hasn't got the "power" to create a tide in the med but at other times buckles the earths crust. 
Hardly likely.
So if it isn't buckling what is going on at these nodes?

"Tides and the environment 
Would the world be different had there been no tides, no moon? Fortunately, we can find an answer to this question by simply visiting the Mediterranean Sea. This sea is so enclosed and relatively small, that tides don't exist (less than 20cm). Life (for people) is quite pleasant there and the underwater environment counts a high number of species, but the fishery does not sustain large volumes.
Here in New Zealand, we experience a tide of around 2-3m and its effects are many:
• without tides, dunes cannot form, (see dunes and beaches). Tides expose sea sand to the wind, which blows it into dunes. Dunes help protect the land from the sea.
• tides condition coasts to wave and tsunami attacks from the sea. Biggest tsunami damage happens where tides are small or nonexistent, such that a tsunami can run far inland (Sumatra,Tokyo).
• tides create an area of rocky shore where specialised organisms have evolved. Tides thus increase the biodiversity of the coast (limpets, barnacles, oysters, etc.)
• tides create large areas for specialised organisms within harbours and embayments (sand and mud flats, mangroves, etc.). such areas may act as nurseries for various marine species and feeding grounds for others (wading birds and humans).
• tides create currents that mix the water so that surface plankton is spread and bottom nutrients re-surface. This makes plankton available throughout the year and down to sunless depths.
• tides create currents that transport plankton to sessile filterfeeders such as clams, sponges, seasquirts, etc, feeding with little effort, thus growing fast. It creates very rich habitats where currents pass.
• tides create currents that transport and mix coastal sediments. Without them, the coast would be more sensitive to sewage disposal and runoff from the land. It would support fewer people on the land and fewer fish in the sea".

So the action is a symbiotic one 
the movement of the water stirs up life.
The sun and the moon act like paddles in the ocean.
Maybe the earth is buckling? 
It shows signs of moving all the time.
Perhaps someone might have an idea about these nodes.
Clearly something is happening here and to be fair, 
nothing directly points to the moon or sun
unless some electromagnetic action is at work, or salinity or temp based.

just realized that
mikegdc
cited these observations or reference to them, in a Aug 10th post 
thanks mikegdc



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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Thinkforyourself on Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:06 pm

Posted by ricaius on 10/03/2015
The Mediterranean Sea is a part of the Atlantic Ocean almost completely enclosed by land, on the north by Europe, on the south by Africa, and on the east by Asia. It is a large mass of salted water (965,000 sq mi). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea
The salinity of the Mediterranean is uniformly high throughout the basin. Surface waters average about 38 parts per thousand (38 grams per litre) and the salinity can approach 40 ppt in the eastern Mediterranean during the summer.
The average salinity of all the oceans is 35 ppt.
www.salinityremotesensing.ifremer.fr/sea-surface-salinity/salinity-distribution-at-the-ocean-surface
gnoo.bo.ingv.it/mfs/B4G_indicators/SSS.htm
sciencelearn.org.nz/Contexts/The-Ocean-in-Action/Science-Ideas-and-Concepts/Ocean-salinity









The Mediterranean sea does have tides, but they are very limited as a result of the narrow outlet/inlet with the Atlantic ocean (Strait of Gibraltar). Their amplitude is very low, averaging a few centimeters, instead of 1 meter or so in the Atlantic ocean.

www.paolociraci.it/nautica/previsione-marea-cagliari.htm (tides forecast -in italian- you can see the graphs of high and low tide in cm; click on squares to change location)

The point is the amount of salt in the water does not result in higher/larger/wider/more remarkable tides.

HERE you can play with times and dates of recent tides (9/28 was big full moon): as you can see, the height of the tides are very restrained, and the tidal “wave” is progressing from the strait of Gibraltar towards the east when there is a high tide, while going backwards when a low tide occurs. Also, no wave (or very little) between the two.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but It seems like the water flows in and out from the single little passage of Gibraltar, not wide enough to allow a full interchange of waters, thus making the Mediterranean a warm and over-salted sea.

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

Post by Meister on Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:09 am

Another factor that could possibly affect the outcome of tides is to consider that the ocean is at the lowest altitude on The Flat Earth versus other Lakes and bodies of water.

Another thing to think about, consider boiling an egg in a pan, the middle will take longer to heat up and cook, where as the side of the egg where it is thinner will cook through faster and eventually burn if left long enough. Now think of the earth as the egg in the pan and the sides being the ocean heated by the sun more rapidly as this is "in this model" the thinnest part of the Flat Earth. During these times of extreme heat (mornings to mid-day) and then a sudden change to colder temperatures (afternoon to night), the change of these temperatures could affect a sort of slight morph on the land of the coastal areas meaning that the land would retract slightly and cause the tide to move out and in. The constant repeat of this process would cause the whole ocean to be one constant "massive wave" if you will.

I think that it is very important for us to understand that we are talking about a massive body of water, meaning that the repeated processes of the The Flat Earth which happens each and every day is a constant motion.

Another thing that could cause tides could be constant earthquakes underneath earth, even if they are tiny ones. A constant motion in a bucket of water would cause lowering of the body of water on one end and the rise in another. It is possible as we experience around 50 earthquakes each day (that we know of or what we are told by you know who). If this is true, that would mean that out of the "70% - Based on the Ball earth but let's consider this is still accurate for this idea" water count that we have on earth, we only know of a maximum of 10, maybe even 20% of those earthquakes that happen or is actually measurable (again, that we know of or what we are told by you know who). That would mean that we have at least 200 small earthquakes which keeps the "ocean in motion".

Something to remember is that the ocean is massive, anything that keeps it in motion...that being Earthquakes, Temperature, Whirlpools or whatever that may be, it will have a long lasting affect on tides as the ocean moves from one end of the bucket to the other (but on a massive scale) and it is possible to think that if these events should cease today that the ocean will still keep in motion for a good few decades without any of these factors.

The above are ideas only, they may help spark some thought in another who is more capable of actually being able to do the experiment. It is impossible to say if they are true until proven and nothing that we cannot see or measure is true. I can only make my judgement when I have seen it for myself. It doesn't matter how true something may seem, until we actually see it for ourselves, we cannot prove anything. It just shows you how gullible the human mind is, most people believe what they are told without seeing it for themselves and even then, their mind is so conditioned that it will even bend the spoon when the spoon is completely straight when told by a higher authority.

Our Flat Earth was the biggest scandal ever kept, even overpowering religion because the Flat Earth changes everything we know. Once we are believers, we can finally see and we are then no longer Sheep being herded along. We are the Masters of our own Life!

All the best and a great job to all!


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What cauases tides

Post by esrjm22 on Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:19 pm

There are no tides on water masses eg the Great Lakes not connected to the sea, so we can take the moon and sun out of the equation.
Not my theory but I believe on the flat earth they are caused by a whirlpool effect in the Artic North Pole sucking the water in to the waters below and reversing
the process.Strangely enough the largest tide activity occurs the nearer you get to that region.For what reason we have tides may be another question.
But it seems part of the creators design.

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Re: What Causes The Ocean's Tides?

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